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Compromise.

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Keith, Jul 22, 2017.

?

Do you carry all modern equipment or do you carry primitive equipment?

  1. All modern

    25.0%
  2. All primitive except for medical supplies

    25.0%
  3. A combination of modern & primitive but believe I can still survive long term

    50.0%
  1. Keith

    Keith Moderator Staff Member

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    I have noticed that few preppers are actually prepared to list the equipment that they have in their B.O.B. I am not sure why this is.
    "When packing for the trail there must be a compromise between two principles; minimum weight & maximum self reliance". I wonder how many preppers actually follow this basic rule/advise.

    Maximum self reliance long term in my opinion should involve thinking about the sustainability of one's equipment. Note we are talking about (a) bugging out away from one's home, & (b) we are talking long term.

    I have posted on the long term benefit & other benefits of carrying 18th century equipment including the use of a flintlock muzzle-loading gun or rifle (& pistol if possible), but many do not agree with my opinions on this, instead preferring to carry modern equipment including modern firearms for hunting & self defence.

    Common sense, at least to me, dictates that modern ammo in quantity is heavy to carry, unless perhaps you are carrying a .22 rimfire or an air rifle. Common sense to me also dictates that modern gadgets do not last, batteries are heavy & go flat, many multi-use tools don't actually do any particular job well, gadgets break, take up room in the pack & add to the weight. In my opinion there are far better items that need to be carried. Even IF you are a big strong chap & can carry a lot of weight, you surely would have to wonder if it was better to be carrying more food instead of that gadget/radio/solar charger/torch/etc etc?

    I have always said that a modern gun is better in a fire fight than a muzzle-loading gun being used against others using modern guns, but If I could only carry one gun with me, I would still carry my flintlock fusil.

    So fess-up people, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it would be better to be carrying a 12 gauge shotgun & the extra weight of ammo & worry about running out of ammo when it happens? Can you carry everything you consider essential & still expect to survive long term in the wilderness comfortably? Have you really thought this through? Do you have the skills to live long term away from your home?
    Keith.
     
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  2. Prime

    Prime Well-Known Member

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    Interesting post Keith , I will answer this when i get a bit of spare time , I know we will differ on our outlook but I respect the question.
     
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  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Administrator Staff Member

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    I always say "use what is available until it is all used up and gone", then you have the old and tested traditional methods to fall back on, provided you know how to use them of course. so a bit of each would be my answer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  4. Keith

    Keith Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree that in theory this sounds like a good idea, in fact I think my wife would agree with you. But what concerns me is, would you be leaving anything important out of your pack to make room for the modern gear? I mean when it is used up or it is no longer of any use, you will chuck it, fine, but would you have been better off carrying say more flour to make bread? You see where I am coming from.
    Let us say you are right & I decided right now to add some modern gadget (I honestly can't think of anything that would be of any use to me, but okay let's say I add a battery operated torch), this gadget will be over & above what I NEED, because I already have what I need & I have already made some compromise in choosing the items that I carry. So this modern gadget is now extra weight! My pack is now too heavy, something has to go. What can I afford to get rid of to lighten my pack to make room for this gadget? The answer is, nothing. I do not want to get rid of anything that I am already carrying to make room for this gadget. Does that make any sense to you? Am I explaining my point in the best way? (gees I type faster after a beer & make less typos!!!!)
    Keith.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Administrator Staff Member

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    yes it makes most sense to me, you carry what you can use and what is most useful in your situation.
    like I said somewhere else I spent a lot of time backpacking on Dartmoor, where I went on the high moor there are no trees so building a shelter or carrying a tarp would be useless, so a tent is required.
    as they say "horses for courses".
    of course at some point all this modern gear would be used up but I hope I have collected enough of the necessary stuff, mostly tools, to see me out.
    a friend reckoned that following generations post SHTF might be reduced to stone age technology if the knowledge cant be passed on or future generations became "dumb and dumber", once all this modern stuff is gone but I think it'll be more like the 18th or 17th century lifestyle, no machines, everything done by hand or horse power if your lucky
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  6. mark wilson

    mark wilson Moderator Staff Member

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    A would love to hunt as you do Keith after watch a good few of your videos you lead a very interesting life sir

    Old a tested method for me for most however never used flint lock...it would be great to have both Keith...flintlock rifle for hunting and modern day gun for defence. A would also go with less equipment and maximum self reliance.. there is definitely a plus side to having base camp were everything is kept and venturing out with the minimum of stuff... if possible.

    If the choice was one or the other then it would be flint lock only because it's been tried and tested and would allow you to make your own amo( in saying this Kieth can gunpowder be made at home?) and when it came to new or old knifes then as I like new knifes and collect them a would still have to say homemade knife


    A would sacrifice modern day torches for only traveling during the day....and if I had to hunt at night it would have to be closer in or by fire light in way of a torch..


    Eventually (I would think) everything would run out at some point so a more basic way of hunting and foraging would be needed.
     
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  7. ystranc

    ystranc Well-Known Member

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    My modern guilty pleasure is my CZ.22lr.
    I also like my waterproof stuff sack, Kelly kettle, Bergen day pack and Bivvy. The rest of my kit would be recognisable to the average guy from 100 years ago. I even have an antique camel wool sleeping bag used when dry camping.
    I tend to wear wool instead acrylic fabrics like fleece.
    I believe avoiding conflict is easier then trying to defend against overwhelming odds so I don't really include weapons in my kit. My rifle, axe or knife could be used as weapons but they're intended to be used as tools.

    Mark, hunting at night using an unfocused firelight would show up your position in all directions, much better to look into trapping. I do most of my trap line in the hours either side of dawn and dusk when it is easy enough to see by ambiant light but easy enough to hide if you need to. Traps on land or in water can be an unobtrusive way of feeding yourself and they free up time for other necessary tasks.
     
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  8. mark wilson

    mark wilson Moderator Staff Member

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    True
     
  9. Keith

    Keith Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes you can make your own gunpowder if you can find or purchase the ingredients.
    Keith.
    http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/about-gunpowder-gutenberg-file.html
    http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/two-more-gunpowder-bags.html
    http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/backwoods-gunpowder-making.html

     
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  10. mark wilson

    mark wilson Moderator Staff Member

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